All Comments for 'The Shugden Issue Used to be Just a Religious One'

Hi Anonymous Reader,
I’m a Buddhist and have been living in NYC for over a decade. I’ve heard about this dorje shugden issue and has been following the news. My view is that this issue has become political only when the Dalai Lama’s people or namely CTA has created so much problems to the shugden practitioners. I’ve personally seen these practitioners have to suffer and the torture extend to their families. this is extremely inhumane. I thought Dalai Lama’s motto is to promote Inner peace and outer calm? However his people are doing the opposite? Why create so much segregation and disharmony among own people?

In addition, I think you should not make any baseless accusation to Ms. Foo and her choice of religion and her work place Kechara House. It’s absolutely unnecessary and unfair to her. She is here just to voice her opinion but not finger pointing, however, you as anonymous reader, should not ATTACK her just because she is vocal and protective of her faith. Be careful with your words as well when u’re trying to degrade an established centre or organisation.

May 24, 2016 11:34 PM

Reuters exposed that the Int'l Shugden organization was largely funded by the Chinese Government. After that exposure, the Shugden shut down & issued a statement it was no longer organizing any protests against the Dalai Lama.

The Dalai Lama has no army or police force. There are only about 140,000 Tibetans in exile & 6 million in occupied Tibet. The CCP has 80 million members & the PLA has over 1 million soldiers. The only weapon we Tibetans have against Chinese colonialism is the truth but that is what the CCP fears the most.

Mar 25, 2016 12:34 PM

This article as been targeted for attack by the fake Buddhist organization called Kechara House; which is funded by the Chinese Government to attack Tibetans and hijack Buddhism through propaganda and wrong information.

Tibetans are not Chinese property. Religion is not Chinese property.

Mar 18, 2016 01:24 PM

Voicing out different views is an act of attacking? Giving opinion that you disagree with is an act of attacking? What era we are living in?

How about some of the comments here calling Dorje Shugden as Dolgyal which is a name to put down someone's belief? How about some of the comments here accussing Dorje Shugden practitioners as spies and receiving money from China? ARE ALL THESE NOT ATTACK? Only Dorje Shugden practitioners are bad and evil, and when they voice out their views and opinions, they are like terrorist attacking people? This is very wrong and very unfair.

Mar 19, 2016 03:39 AM

Abby Foo works for Kechara House.
Kechara House has no supporters or students in Malaysia that aren't ultimately being paid by China. Their businesses are always empty. Their buildings are always empty, except for people that occassionally wander in thinking it is a real Buddhist center or who are paid. where is the money coming from Abby Foo? How is it that you are being paid?

Why is it that you always dodge the question instead of just saying "Kechara House isn't laundering or accepting money from the Chinese government"?

Maybe you learned your lesson from lying to people by saying Tsem and Kechara House don't practice shugden?

Maybe you realize that once you've lied to enough people about accepting money from China then proof will be placed online so everyone can see how horrible and deceptive you are?

Just wait Abby Foo. This is just a repeat of the exposure of KH spreading shugden. They make hints online to get people talking, they let you write lies everywhere, and then they provide undeniable proof, that they have had for years, online so people will know just how horrible and deceptive you are.

You keep getting caught in the same trap because you've been lead to believe no one has proof.

After the funding is exposed with proof, Kechara House will be gone like the ISC. And by then you will have no future career, just like the people Kechara House smeared.

And then the tables will be completely reversed by the truth. The people whose careers were ruined by lies from KH will be vindicated and recieve job offers, and you will be without a job or friends.

That is how powerful the truth is, and how damaging it is to lie.

Mar 28, 2016 07:57 PM

Do you know what deceptive really is?

Here we see what real deception is:

1. Whoever "attacking" me personally and my spiritual home Kechara, you should be opened with who you are since you heavily criticize my "deception". I am being honest with my belief, my practice, my identity, my Guru and my spiritual home...and to people who keep saying I am deceptive, how honest you are then?

2. When you label Shugden people as China spies/chinese dogs/taking money from China... Where is the proves of Kechara is taking money from China? And do you realized when you make such label to Shugden people/me/Kechara? It is when we ask you what is wrong with holding the lineage Gurus' lineage teachings? What is wrong in keeping promises to your own Guru? What is wrong in choosing whatever I wish to believe and follow?

You know clearly you can't say "no" to all my questions above as a "rational" person, you know the bottom line is eveyone has religious freedom that people are given the rights to choose their belief without being insulted and punished because we all have our own rights. But there is always one way to attack, that is saying Shugden people are being paid by China, which is quite provoking in order to get more supports for your point of view after knowing you can't deny my religious freedom. But you know what, no offence, I am more than welcome to see your proves to Kechara is getting money from China because of we do Dorje Shugden. If not you are just being deceptive I am sorry to say.

3. Being deceptive is you only choose what your deceptive mind wants to see - that Kechara is "empty". I have been working in Kechara for many years and I witness how many people coming in and leaving(as usual) but I witness also how majority peoe have stay and grow into a beautiful person and how our works grow. The very reason you are attacking Kechara is because you think that Kechara is big and influential enough to make impact to people. If Kechara stands for just "empty" buildings, then you will not be "annoyed" by our "Shugden propaganda" and you will just leave Kechara alone to do our little Shugden pujas, right?


[This comment has been edited by RFA Editorial staff per our Terms of Use]

May 02, 2016 09:36 AM

Dear Karma,

You refer to Shukden as a gyalpo spirit but the 14th Dalai Lama wrote a praise to this deity referring to him as a being with the wisdom, compassion and power of all Buddhas and arising from a number of pure lands. In other words, the Dalai Lama regarded Shukden as an enlightened being.

The Dalai Lama worshipped this deity for 40 years and then condemned the same deity for 40 years. How do we know if he is right then or now. For sure this flip-flop is confusing and if the Dalai Lama is indeed a Buddha as Tibetans worship him as, then why the uncertainly and the complete reversal of position on the same deity? I do not know Chenrezi to be to flaky.

If you are quoting Trijang Rinpoche as an authority on this deity, Trijang Rinpoche also clearly stated that Shukden is Manjushri. So why are you cherry picking bits to suit your argument?

Which Dalai Lama version should I believe anyway?

[This comment has been edited by RFA Editorial staff per our Terms of Use]

Mar 14, 2016 09:40 AM

Dogyal(Shugden) practice, like all mundane protector worship, was political from the start. This particular protector was especially praised for stopping Gelugpas from taking teachings from other traditions (to counter the political threat from the Rime movement) and to stop non-Gelugpas taking political office. Trijang Rinpoche, among others, specifically said dogyal kills people that fall into either group.
The depiction of dogyal as an evil spirit is also entirely typical of all mundane protectors. (I feel your complete ignorance of Tibetan culture may be showing.) Dogyal is a damsri spirit (vow breaker) and a gyalpo spirit. Trijang Rinpoche describes it as both of those.
"Instead of wisely counseling all parties to understand each others practice and belief..." You seriously think the Dalai Lama would have to ask someone to understand what dogyal worship was about? He was a student of Trijang Rinpoche and got the teachings straight from the horse's mouth. I think he understands this protector practice way better than you do.

Mar 11, 2016 03:02 PM

Does this westerner know about Tibetan politic? To claim they know is an arrogance.

Who was ruling in the past exile
government?? The DS followers! Even the young elites had through family background link to DS. And their aim was also just one Sect that of Gyalukpa. The representative in Europe were mainly Gyalukpa and the abbot DS follower. Today we have all four schools represented.

So before you comment something first check up carefully.

Mar 11, 2016 08:51 AM

Reuters actually said, "Reuters has no independent evidence of direct Chinese financing of the protests."

Interesting that you failed to quote that part of the article isn't it.

Mar 11, 2016 04:46 AM

We can all safely ignore the comments of Abby Foo, Daniel Bear and Martin Chow as they are all members of the Kechara House Shugden cult, whose leader is Tsem Tulku (sic). If you do look at his website or blog you can quickly tell who his paymaster is - he has only good things to say about how "progressive" the Chinese totalitatarian state is, with its abysmal record of human rights violation and he only has bad things to say about the Tibetan government in exile. Go figure. Tsem is a bully and a charlatan and everyone should steer well clear of him and his brainwashed acolytes.

Mar 10, 2016 11:40 PM

I keep hearing of Dholgyal people taking money from China but I find it incredible that no one has ever been able to show evidence of this. Not even one shred of a shadow.

It would appear that you are using this forum as another opportunity to character assassinate.

Not very convinced I am afraid.

Mar 11, 2016 05:36 PM

chymicalsister,
How sure are you Tsem and Kechara House taking Chinese monies? Do u have any proof? If you're only one of those cyberbully/crowd follower, i'm afraid you might want to stop following blindly. There are so much rumours flying around and if you're just one of those who takes thing out of context and start bad mouthing or put down others just to FEEL GOOD. I suggest you to meditate on your movitation and actions, have some peace.

May 24, 2016 11:41 PM

The Shugden issue have been going on too long. On a spiritual value, there's tons of evidence to disprove that DS practice is negative. But since the majority would rather fall in line and be politically correct, people would rather stay comfortable rather than see the logic and reasoning of the validity of DS practice.

But Tsering Woeser, as a human rights activist, she seem to have forgotten the purpose of an activist. While she writes to help Tibetans have freedom of expression, in this article, her writings served to cripple the freedom of Shugden practitioners. Is this her understanding of human rights? That some people deserve freedom of expression while some dont?

Everyone in this world should have the priviledge of freedom of expression and freedom of religion. And this freedom is defined by the freedom for one to practice their choice of religion without persecution from the government either in public or privately.

Now the questions, can a non DS practitioner have tea with a DS practitioner without being scorned? No, then we have a religious freedom issue.

Are there shops that do not allow DS practitioners from entering these public shops? Yes, then we have a religious freedom issue.

One may answer, this is the local stigma against DS practitioners, but it is spearheaded by the Tibetan leadership, as Samdhong Rinpoche stated years ago when questioned if DS practitioners are not allowed in shops, to which he reply something to this effect "Yes, they know they are not allowed, then why did they enter the shop."

When the leadership allow such persecution and even praise in support, we have a religious freedom issue.

I respected Tsering Woeser, as a person who's dedicated in what she believed in and her sheer confidence and bravery. But after reading this article, it showed me her biased mentality, and her fight for Tibetan freedom of expression is not because she truly believe in freedom of expression, but it is for her own personal interest. Anyone with a good head on their shoulder would quickly spot her bias and effort to be politically correct.

As the French philosopher said "It is dangerous to be correct when the government is wrong". Tsering Woeser, please realize your stance on DS is entirely contradictory to what you claim you believe and fight for. What you have written have impinged Shugden practitioner's religious freedom, and even accused them unjustly.

Mar 10, 2016 07:38 PM

I used to respect and admire Tsering Woeser as a human rights activist because she fights for what she believes courageously and I respect her stance and belief that everyone should be treated equally and everyone deserves freedom and respect.

However, Tsering Woeser's stance on the Dorje Shugden issue made me lost respect for her. How can a human rights activist agree with discrimination towards a group of people? How can a human rights activist bias towards the government and just accused Dorje Shugden practitioners as people who have been paid by the China? How can a human rights choose to ignore the unfairness and discrimination towards Dorje Shugden practitioners and choose to be politically correct and accused Dorje Shugden people without an open mind to have discussion at all?

As a human rights activist, Tsering Woeser should have the understanding of what is called religious freedom! It is not about whether Dorje Shugden is a spirit or Buddha at all, it is about a group of people are being discriminated because of their belief, the end! Religious freedom accepts all beliefs, no matter good and bad and good and bad is NEVER THE ISSUE because good and bad are very subjective! If a belief leads to crime, let the law and police deal with it, no one can be the judge.

I hope Tsering Woeser, as a human rights activist, you should tell the truth, be honest and open, speak up for those who need your help, and not being politically correct.

This is stories from the other side of this Dorje Shugden issue which the world should know and understand with an open heart to really resolve this issue: http://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/buddhas-dharma/who-is-dorje-shugden-to-me.html

Mar 10, 2016 03:25 PM

As if you even knew who Tsering Woeser was before Kechara House decided to attack her for talking about China's disgusting policy of twisting religion into a political weapon with the use of a few no integrity low lifes and social media.

Shame on you Abby Foo. Shame on Kechara House. Shame on Tsem.

Apr 04, 2016 06:08 PM

This article cites a Reuter's piece about Shugden and toes the CTA line that Shugden practitioners are at the beck and call of Chinese masters.

The Reuters post itself has been called into question here that raises a number of issues to debunk Reuter's claims.

Have a read to get a balanced views. It is very unfortunate that a peaceful and ancient religion has been made an instrument of politics.

Read the questions Tsem Rinpoche raised about the Reuters article:

http://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/dorje-shugden/reuters-investigation-on-dorje-shugden-inaccurate.html

Mar 10, 2016 03:05 PM

Dear Tsering Woeser,

I am an Australian citizen and I am a Buddhist who also worships Dorje Shugden as a Dharma Protector. I have no part in the Sino-Tibetan conflict and frankly I have no interest in the quarrel. When it comes to politics, whose word do you trust? Hence, wisdom has always insisted that politics and religion should never mix.

One of the reasons the Shugden issue has become politicized is because of articles such as this one. You are well known as a political activist and when a political activist writes about religion, which I can safely assume you are no expert in, one can be sure that religion has been politicized yet again. So you see, it is people like you who perpetuate the problem and that itself disqualifies you from this higher ground that you appear to be claiming.

You cleverly wrote that “In indicating that followers of the Gelugpa school should drop their Shugden practice, he is effectively handing over greater religious freedom to believers. It is effectively a negation of something negative that yields a positive”. That is just plain dishonest Tsering. His Holiness declares that the practice of my religion is an abomination and in that he is giving me religious freedom? No, what you are in fact admitting to is that His Holiness the Dalai Lama politicized the practice of a religion and then duly lost control of that instrument to the Chinese, and so now the Dalai Lama wants to destroy a political instrument He meant to use against the Chinese. None of this has anything to do with the practice of Dorje Shugden. Dorje Shugden is simply a scapegoat that His Holiness has picked on because it is historically a Gelugpa deity and as the highest political authority of the Gelugpas, no one dared to stand against His Holiness. Those who do as we have seen are labeled Chinese spies or sympathizers on Beijing’s payroll. I don’t mind someone paying me to practice a religion I would practice for free anyway, especially seeing that my belief and life do not matter one tiny iota in the Sino-Tibetan conflict. I am not a factor until articles like this make me a factor.

If the Tibetan leadership indeed intends to ‘negate something that is negative’ which I translate to mean not letting the Chinese use a religious practice against His Holiness the Dalai Lama, then perhaps His Holiness should not in the fist place, have exceeded his authority and infringe upon the rights of Dorje Shugden worshippers to practice what they choose. In so doing, His Holiness handed to his ‘enemy’ the very instrument of division they now use against the Tibetan people. And now, again if indeed the Tibetan leadership intends to neutralize a religion that they foolishly armed, then why not just remove the ban on the religion? By the way, which supposedly democratic government bans a religion anyway, and then accuse the Chinese of religious persecutions?

Religious freedom means not meddling in anyone’s faith regardless of whether he is worshipping a god or a rock. You yourself recognized that religion is a personal choice and so how come that freedom of choice extends to everyone except Shugden believers? In addition, as a Tibetan whom I assume has not forgotten her tradition, Tibetan Buddhism encompasses the worship of a countless pantheon of deities, with the Bon practicing the worship of spirits. Again, who is to say that they are wrong? With that many practices to choose from, why target Dorje Shugden? Who one takes to be a god is not yours or anyone’s concern and is not for you to comment and politicize.

Please take your politics elsewhere Tsering and stop politicizing my religion. If you don’t wish for the Shugden issue to be politicized, stop arming it as one.

Thank you

Mar 10, 2016 02:49 PM

His Holiness has time and again advised DS worshpiers to keep away from attending his teachings due to the disconnect between the teacher or the Tsawai Lama and the follower . Either then that ; DS followers are free to choose whichever way of worship they prefer . But , if you love the Dalai Lama as well as DS in terms of having faith of worship , the choice I guess ; is entirely for DS followers to make . But ; yelling at and name calling His Holiness is utterly disrespectful and wrong . And ; absolutely uncalled for.
I am pleased to hear some of you say you have nothing to do with receiving money from Beijing . I hope , you can live with your statement for you alone know your truth . Telling the truth is the Kindergarten lesson in Buddha's teachings . May Buddha bless you , me and the world.
.

Mar 11, 2016 11:20 AM

Actually, Je Tsongkhapa rejected non-Indian and non-enlightened protectors entirely. So you can't say shugden / dolgyal was a Gelug practice because it simply wasn't.

The Dalai Lama is holding with the tradition of Gelugpa by rejecting the shugden / dolgyal practice himself and I don't think it's unreasonable for him to ask people who pretend to be his students, when they actually have no interest in following his spiritual guidance, to not attend his religious teachings.

May 08, 2016 10:31 AM

"The problem of Shugden has lasted...through five incarnations of the Dalai Lama."
Er, the problem began at the time of the Great Fifth. HH, the current Dalai Lama is the Fourteenth. 14-6=9 incarnations.

If Shugden practice is abour peoples earnings, Shugden is little more than a wealth deity, and one whose services are required for the benefit of this life's goals, ie entirely non religious ones. Praying to the Buddha for money? If thats your practice, youre not a Buddhist!

Mar 10, 2016 01:39 PM